Monday, January 7, 2008

Fr. Ramon Andreu's Notes: Part Two, Post 2

July 31, 1961

For a description of the different happenings that took place on July 31st, I will use Fr. Luís’ notes, combined with notes from Fr. Cipriano Abad and Fr. Andrés Pardo. I will put these notes together with personal explanations taken from my own notes and my memory.

Responses of the girls:

On July 31st we made time to interrogate the three girls who were in San Sebastián de Garabandal. Conchita was still in Santander. I cite the document:

“We wanted to ask the girls a few questions to clarify some of the things that they’d said.
Loli’s father brought the three girls to his house. In one of the rooms, the father was with Fr. Cipriano Abad, Fr. Ramón Andreu. The three girls gave responses to the questions that Fr. Luís Andreu asked them. The responses are the following:

1st: “Did you see the Virgin from the time of the first apparition?”

R: “We had to wait a few days to see the Virgin. We saw the Angel first.”

2nd: “Do you always see the same Virgin?”

R: “The first time it was Our Lady of Perpetual Help. Another time it was Our Lady of Mt. Carmel with a scapular here (they signal with their hands). She wore a thing like this (they made a gesture of a cinched cord that fell almost to her feet). The Child carried the scapular.”

Note: The identity of the Vision that appeared as one Virgin one day and another on a different day was indicated not by a change in the face, but by a change in the clothing she wore. The girls asked the vision before who all of the Virgins were. She responded to the girls that there was only one Virgin, which was her, María. The Virgin and the Child both carried scapulars.

3rd: “Did the Child say the same things as the Virgin?”

R. “The Child did not speak. He laughed. The Virgin kissed us and we kissed her.”

4th: “I heard that sometimes you have seen different angels.”

R. “The Virgin of the Angels also appeared to us.”

5th: “They say that the Virgin changed the secret that she had told the Angel, because she added some things.”

R. “First the Angel spoke of the secret and then the Virgin. But there are two secrets: the Angel’s secret and the Virgin’s secret. We never talk amongst ourselves about the secret because once the people heard us. On October 18th we have to tell the Virgin’s secret. We can tell the Angel’s secret already.” (To an insinuation of what we said to them then, even though it was private, they responded, “On October 18th we will tell the Virgin’s secret and ‘if we want’ we can tell the Angel’s secret as well that day, but only if we want to”).

Note: When October 18th arrived the girls didn’t tell the Angel’s secret. On the next day, October 19th, I asked them if they wanted to tell me the Angel’s secret. The girl I said this to was Conchita, and I said it in the sacristy of the Church. She told me that since the 18th had passed, and she hadn’t told it, she didn’t know if she was allowed to say. She didn’t tell me. The impression that I took away from this encounter, as from others, is that when an infantile reaction is about to occur, there is also a manner of behaving that is like a transmission between the Virgin and the girls, not quite transcendent, nor is there the feeling that the words have been transmitted. This manner of acting gives the girls authenticity.

6th: “When the Virgin appears to you, do you laugh to each other?”

R. “No, we laugh when one is in ecstasy and the other isn’t.”

7th: “Does the Virgin frighten you?”

R. “No. One day we were frightened when we saw a glow and we didn’t see the ground.”

8th: “What is the Virgin’s voice like?”

R. “There isn’t any voice like hers.”

9th: “And the Virgin, how is she when she appears?”

R. “She appears on her feet, on a wreath or in the air. Always standing, like this, near (she makes a gesture).”

10th: “Are there many angels?”

R. “There are five angels, including St. Michael.”

“How do you know?”

“She told us that she was the Virgin (Queen) of the Angels.”

Note: The Queen of the Angels, the Queen of the Rosary, the Virgin of Perpetual Help, etc. These titles correspond to the same person in the minds of the girls, who is the Virgin, María. The Virgin herself explained it like this. When coming with angels, normally she would come with St. Michael. The girls would ask: “Why do you come with angels today?” And the response was like this: “It’s because I am the Queen of the Angels.” Something of an analogy would occur then with the scapular, and with the other titles that the Vision received.

11th: “Do you have to ask for a miracle or a sign from the Virgin.”

R. “She becomes very serious when we ask her for a miracle.”

This dialog that is summarized in eleven questions, didn’t seem like an interrogation, but rather a simple conversation in which they spoke of non-transcendent things, like what games they wanted to play, names of family members, etc. In this way they tried to create a climate of cordiality that made this easier. This was the first time that we’d talked with the girls in such an extensive manner. The questions corresponded with the points of view and problems that we planted in the first impression that we received. The people also tried to confuse them with capricious questions, but they couldn’t. This dialog took place in the afternoon according to what I can remember now.